67: How to Create a Dream Team and Streamline Your Design Processes with Jessica Harling

67: How to Create a Dream Team and Streamline Your Design Processes with Jessica Harling

In episode 67 of The Designer Within Podcast, host John McClain sits down with Jessica Harling, founder of Behind the Design, to discuss the essentials of building a successful design team. They explore strategies for defining core values, setting realistic goals, and hiring the right talent. 

Jessica shares her expertise on the importance of a solid onboarding process, managing company culture, and establishing effective processes. The episode highlights actionable tips for new design business owners looking to grow their company and maximize their team's potential. 

Key takeaways include the significance of having a competitive offer, the importance of timing in the hiring process, and the impact of building strong client relationships for future referrals.

00:00 Starting Your Dream Design Team

01:11 Introduction to The Designer Within Podcast

02:17 Meet Jessica Harling: People Operations Expert

03:47 The Essentials of Building Your Dream Team

04:18 Jessica's Journey and Insights

08:03 Hiring the Right Talent: Tips and Strategies

15:32 Creating a Competitive Offer and Onboarding

27:45 The Importance of Company Culture

29:25 Processes: The Backbone of Success

29:56 The Importance of Having a Process

32:51 Setting Client Expectations

33:38 Tips for New Designers

38:31 Common Mistakes in Process Development

44:03 Building Client Relationships and Referrals

51:19 Goal Setting and Team Building

54:51 Services Offered by Behind the Design

58:01 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Website: https://www.gobehindthedesign.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/gobehindthedesign/reels/?locale=us&hl=am-et

Transcript

The Designer Within Podcast Episode 67 Transcript

How to Create a Dream Team and Streamline Your Design Processes with Jessica Harling

[00:00:00] What do you think would be one step today that a designer can take? To really start building their dream team. If they're listening to this right now and they're saying, yes, okay, I feel that urge. I know that I want to grow my company. Is there one thing that they could do right now to get it into motion, other than just saying, I'm gonna hire someone.
What can they do to mentally prepare themselves? Yeah. If it's a brand new designer and you're starting your from for the first time, start with the culture aspect of it. For me personally, I started with my core values. And where I needed that to be structured for the whole foundation of what we're doing.
And so that helps establish a culture. And then from there you can start to put together your roles and the organization chart. But one advice is you have to build the business from where you're at right now. And if where you're at right now is that you get one job a year and you just are trying to reach for three jobs a year, then your goals need to be.
Focused [00:01:00] on that and processes built toward that. Don't build processes that are for a $5 million business. 'cause you're gonna get really disappointed when those are not lining up right away. Hey y'all, you're listening to The Designer Within podcast, episode 67, designer Edition. Welcome to The Designer Within podcast.
The podcast where creativity meets intention and great design in your home and life goes way beyond aesthetic. I'm your host, John McLean and interior designer, business advisor and full believer in the power of intentional design to inspire a better way of living. Whether you're a homeowner looking to elevate your space, a design professional, striving to grow your business, or someone ready to create a more fulfilling life.
This podcast is for you. We are here to explore the art of design, the business behind it, and the mindset that fuels it all. Because great design isn't just about what's on the outside, it [00:02:00] starts from within. So let's dive in and discover the designer within you. Hey everybody. Welcome back to another episode of The Designer Within podcast.
I'm your host, John McLean, and I'm very, very happy to have you here today because today we have an incredible conversation lined up. Get ready to dive deep into the world of design business with none other than Jessica Harling. I love Jessica. She's a powerhouse in people operations and process consulting.
And in this episode, we're going to break down the essentials of building your dream team. Defining your core values, which I love talking about and setting realistic goals for your company, and of course the all important aspects of hiring, onboarding, and nurturing client relationships for those pivotal referrals we talk about.
Everything. And Jessica dropped so many juicy nuggets in this episode. Please listen to the entire thing. It continues all the way until the end of our conversation. So if you're looking to elevate where [00:03:00] you currently are in your design business, streamline your processes. Hiring people, maximizing your team's potential, then this is the episode you have been waiting for, and here's a little info on Jessica.
Before we get started with an unwavering conviction, Jessica Harling can break down complex decisions to simplify an action plan. She is the founder of Behind the Design a people operations company that enthusiastically collaborates with leadership to build dream teams. From recruiting to training and process development, Jessica helps designers nurture, rockstar talent with established, streamlined processes that impact your company's bottom line.
All right, I'm gonna stop talking because we have so much to jump into. So here we go. Grab your pen, grab your notepad, and listen to this exciting conversation with Jessica Harling from behind the. Sign. Hey Jessica, I want to welcome you to the Designer within podcast. Thanks, Sean. I'm so excited to be here.
I'm excited for you to be here because you and I are like kindred spirits on today's topic. [00:04:00] It is all about the things that go behind the scenes in the workings of a design business and the ways that you have developed techniques to help designers and business owners specifically on how to find talent, develop their processes, and it's just, it's my love language.
I. Swear. I love every minute of it. I could talk about it all day long as well. So, but before we get into the juicy nuggets of what you're going to share today, tell everyone about yourself and why you started your business and all about your business. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I started behind the design in 2018.
I started it out of a, a need that I felt was missing in the design industry across the board, different design trades, interior designers and such. And when I was going to conference after conference, there was always. Classes, seminars about selling and marketing and getting out there and closing the deals, but there was never anything on process.
There was never anything on how do you hire these [00:05:00] people and which ones are right? And do I have to have industry? Experience or do I not? And I came from a family business in the design world and window treatments where I was the head of operations and I had to hire and train and onboard and get people working productively in their role and answer those questions when people were asking.
So it kind of snowballed into part-time consulting in 2012. And then I just. Kept getting a reputation, and it became full-time in 2018 when I was like, all right, let's do this. I see the vision and can make this a full-time gig. I love it. And I'm assuming, as you were developing these processes and so forth internally where you were working, I'm assuming that you were seeing things going wrong, seeing things going right, and making sort of mental notes to yourself about things that you could share, right?
Oh yeah. I think that we learned the most. By [00:06:00] seeing something firsthand like, oh my God, that just happened to me. Lemme figure out how a way to fix that. So tell me about some of the things that you may have seen early on as you were developing these systems, even before you knew you were going to have a business.
I'm always curious about what are some of the things that other people notice that someone is doing and you're like, uh, that's not such a good idea. Let's rework that. Anything come to mind? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I have always laughed with my family growing up. I've always learned the hard way. It just, Jessica like will just barrel through the wall with not knowing if it was brick or concrete or what.
And so that's how I grew up in the family business. Just getting a lot of. Gripes and sores and having to reflect on every single person I hired, every single time I trained them, and I started getting into these rhythms. I knew for anyone that was onboarded. I knew if I didn't execute my training process exactly how I needed to do it, that they would quit, they would be fired.
It [00:07:00] was unbelievable night and day. I saw that difference and I, it was kind of like telling myself over and over just. Stick to the process, Jessica, just stick to it because you know it works. You've proven that it does, and you don't wanna go through this over and over and over again. So like some of the, the scrapes and burns and stuff like that.
A lot of times I would be looking for the personality. I'd be looking for the person that could talk to me. 'cause I'm a social person. I like to have. Fun. And so if someone could chat with me in the same level that I could with them, then I was like, oh, you're golden. Move on. But I wasn't at the time, looking at were they detailed, did they even wanna do the job or they even qualified to do the job.
You know, it just was straight on personality. And that's the thing that you can't do in hiring is just go straight off of personality. You have to have proof backing it up. And when you ask, like, you know. Observing now others [00:08:00] trying to recruit or find those right people. The cringe thing for me is hearing how people interview.
Like I have dialed in a method that works and when I listen to others interview, whether it's the employer or the candidate, like both are failing on both parts. So people wanna ask enough questions in an open-ended way and they end up. Giving the candidate the answer. I call it leading the witness. This job is really hard.
It's fast paced. You are gonna be thrown into things that you've never done before. Can you do it? Of course, the candidate wants to say yes. That's their job, is to say yes to you during the interview to try to get the job. Every time they say yes to you, they're that much closer to the finish line. And so when you are interviewing, you have to look at what are the.
Skills that you're looking for and ask questions based on that. Don't just give the answers away. That is very, very good advice, and I might raise my hand that I've been [00:09:00] guilty of that in the past because, you know, you just hit on something there that I feel is so prevalent in the design industry is that we're looking for people with personality.
We're looking for employees and people to partner with that we're like, oh my gosh, she's so fun. I would love to have lunch with her every day. Or, wow, she's so cool. She dresses so well and has the right style, but maybe the work ethics aren't. There. And I think that we are so personality driven in our industry.
It's clicking with the client and clicking with tradespeople and our personality's clicking with the people that we're going to be sitting beside in our office every single day. And that is important. But also I know that, as you said, there has to be questions that we ask to sort of dig, dig a little deeper, find out a little bit more about this person and find out if they are right.
Fit. So when a designer is doing this as a business owner, and maybe let's say they're making their first hire, Jessica. Mm-hmm. So let's say they're working on their very first hire, they're scared outta their mind because they're, first of all, adding an employee [00:10:00] that is gonna be another salary or hourly pay that they have to pay.
So that's scary enough, but also the fact that they may hire the wrong person. So what advice do you have for someone going into this process to say, okay. Now I need someone, I know that I need someone, so we're gonna move past that step. We're gonna just assume that they've done the evaluation. They know that they need a junior designer, or they need admin assistant, something in their office.
Mm-hmm. What process do you recommend for people to say, okay, here are the questions I need to ask here is the type of person that I'm looking for before they even get to the interview process. Love the question. I would start with. Something very simple with regards to the fear element. We gotta get the mindset first, right?
And then you can do the action to prepare for the right person. The mindset of the fear, a lot of times it's what if they leave me? What if they leave me too soon or I invest all this stuff. But it comes down to what if they leave you? Everyone leaves at some point, it's okay. [00:11:00] What if they leave too soon?
We gotta figure out why is that too soon? Were you not prepared? Were they not the right person? There's so many layers to that, but if you just kind of come to terms with at some point. Your employees will get you to a place in business that was great. They helped get your company to the level that you want it to be, but then at some point, for whatever reason, there's gonna be a departure and that's okay.
What you need to do in keeping them is make sure that you're engaging, which we'll talk a little bit about. But once you have that mindset in place that you're just gonna have to create a learning environment, you're gonna have to create a process and a cycle that works for your business so that if and when the time comes that someone leaves, you're prepared for it.
You're not scrambling, you're not losing a bunch of money because of happening. So that is the first mindset part. Once you are like, yay, let's do this. Then I would create a [00:12:00] checklist of your wants and your needs and separate it into deal breakers, things that you absolutely cannot leave without. And I'm talking like this person has to show up on time every day.
Deal breaker. You know, I don't care how awesome they are. I don't care what their experience is. If that doesn't happen, that's the deal breaker. Think about that critically. 'cause a lot of times people create their deal breaker list, that's way too long. And that's not attainable. They're not a perfect person.
There's gonna be something on that list that they're not gonna have. So keep it tight, keep it. Three, four Maxs, and then look at your other must-haves, the ones that you really want in the experience, the ones that are gonna do best for the role. So think about the role critically. If it's in terms of design and they need that eye and they need that experience and that education, great.
Or if they're a procurement type of person and they're gonna do project management or admin work, [00:13:00] then you need that type of skillset. So create your list. Of all the things that you want. Sort 'em into the deal breakers, the must haves and like to haves, and then you can start to form your questions surrounding that list.
You just take each line item on the checklist and create an open-ended question, something that starts with who, what, where, when, why, how. It will always be open-ended. Start crafting a question for each one of those checklists, and then that's your interview guide. Wow. It sounds so easy when you say it like that, but I've been that person again.
I'm using my own self as a Guinea pig here. As a poster child, I have overdone the list. I have said, oh my gosh, this person has to do this, this, this, this, this, and some of that stuff. Jessica, even, I couldn't do, I couldn't even do all of this. I didn't even deliver those to my own company, right? So how was I expecting this other person?
To be the superhero to come in and bring everything. But I like your concept of listing those things that are non-negotiables in your business and then also whittling [00:14:00] that down to something that is manageable for that person. Because you know, again, they're only one person, they can only do so much. But like for me, one thing that I look for as a small business owner is my design team.
And anyone that's an extension of me has to have some sort of sales skills, right? So I want them to have. People skills, but also when I'm not there, which is a lot of the time, I need my team to represent me and be able to sell that client and not just physically selling a sofa or a chair or a table.
Sometimes it's selling them on the concept or selling them on the fact that their project is delayed. And I think that is something that I didn't look for early on. I didn't really place a lot of emphasis on that, and I was just looking for a quote, great designer who. Could deliver a design concept, and yes, that is one part of it, but to your point, as I started to develop this list of things that I'm like, no, no, this person has to have this because we are a small team and we do wear a lot of hats.
Mm-hmm. Then that became quickly something that I wanted to put back in my business. Are there things that a [00:15:00] designer needs to bring to the table as a business owner to say, okay, yes, I want. This talent to work for me. I want this person to work for me. What do we have to do to show them that we are the right company to attract this top level talent that we're looking for?
Because I don't know about you, but the job market seems to be a, a little iffy these days with people. There seems to be a lot of qualified people out there, and they seem to be having the ability to pick and choose what companies they want to work for. So I just want to know what can we do to make ourselves more appealing to those people?
Yeah, I think I would break it down into a couple different categories. First is the offer. The offer has to be competitive. If you're not sure if it's competitive, you've got a couple tools out there you can figure it out. One simple Google search, it's what the candidates are doing, how much do I deserve for this role?
And so that's the information that they're seeing. And so if that's not in alignment with what your role or your offer [00:16:00] is. Then something needs to be tweaked. You don't have to necessarily put more money towards it. It might be a benefit of some kind or time and flexibility, but the offer itself has to be competitive to attract someone that is looking for either a lateral move or.
A step up. Most people, unless they're changing careers, aren't gonna take a step down. And even in changing their careers, they're not seeing it as a step down. They're seeing it as a lateral move in order to grow and to learn. You don't wanna hear from people, oh, I'm taking a huge pay cut. I'm getting a benefits.
Cut and all these things because it's only a matter of time that someone is going to offer something different. Figuring out too what's important to them in the offer, then you can craft it almost like you're selling. You're crafting your pitch to what they are wanting to hear. So the offer needs to be competitive.
Timing has to be [00:17:00] competitive. You know, if you're hiring someone for the very first time, you are fearful of the timing. Like, well, if it took me four weeks to find the person, did it take me enough time to find the person? Or did it take me too much time? And I lost the people early on. And so there's always this.
Fear of timing that comes up and when should I actually move forward with this candidate? You can't let that fear dictate your direction. That's where you gotta come back to that checklist and say they checked the boxes or not. If they did move them forward, if they didn't. Let 'em know they didn't get it.
And just be that black and white about it and then you'll have better decision making there. So timing is critical. 'cause you could lose a candidate in just your decision making process. And then even in your onboarding, some onboardings, if they take a year, two years, like when I talk to interior designers because.
Sometimes [00:18:00] they don't have an established training program. It takes 'em a year to two year to three years to like really develop into their next level. The new generations coming outta school. They're faster paced. They wanna move, they wanna grow quickly in some way. Financial title, responsibility. So if you can keep feeding 'em that.
Speed of something new responsibility, a new title, change a little bit more money, that's what's gonna help snowball it into retention. But it's that initial timing of ramping up to speed that they may feel like if you are taking too long, that you're, you're not gonna give them the growth speed that they're looking for.
Hmm. That's great. Yeah. I wanna talk more about onboarding in a second when you're. Creating these lists of must haves for this person and you're speaking with that person, how much of that is benefits? How much of that is not just the salary of it? Basically, I say this because a lot of design firms, uh, including myself, I don't provide [00:19:00] insurance for employees.
I have other benefits that we can give, such as some retirement plans and so forth. What other ways do you recommend for designers to sort of look at themselves and say, okay, I can't do this. As this other 20 person firm might do, but I can do this. Like for me, for instance, one of the things I do is offer flexibility for my team.
I say, you know what? I can't give you this, but I will help you if you need time off. It's unlimited as far as what they need to do for doctor's appointments and all those things. Any other last minute requests that they do? If we're slow, hey, go home. You're still getting paid for it, that sort of thing.
Did those things need to be worked out on our own before we start interviewing people as far as what we can provide to this new team member? So the short answer of yes is to be best prepared to have the process go fast. 'cause that's another thing that delays the process, is if you haven't figured that out, you do have to figure it out by the time you hire 'em.
And so we've had clients go back and forth, hemming and hawing of, okay, you [00:20:00] know, do I want one week vacation, two weeks vacation? All meanwhile the candidate is. Sitting there interviewing at other places. So yes, we wanna know that. We wanna advertise that, you know, like you're marketing your company, these are the products and services we offer.
These are the benefits, these are the comp plans that we offer. And it attracts immediately the person you're looking for versus being very vague with it going, we'll see, we'll talk about it. Candidates like transparency today, they can Google this. Stuff. So they want to hear from a business owner, yeah, this is how we do it.
No hiding from you, you know, and this is what they're signing up for. So that there doesn't become a conversation of like, well, you told me something different in the recruiting process and now you're changing your story. A very good advice. I think that. For us, you know, we always look for our ideal client as interior designers, right?
That ideal client that's going to partner with us best on a project. I also put that [00:21:00] same mindset toward an employee. What is my ideal team member that I want to hire? And as you said, have those list of wants from them and those list of things that they're going to give to you. And if you have that in mind, you're going to.
Start to notice that with people that you're interviewing with, you hit on something earlier, which was the timeframe for this. And I think that's so interesting because oh my gosh, I have done job hires before where I have dragged it out so long and I reached back out to the per. I'm like, yes, she's the one.
And then like, well honey, I took a job two weeks ago. Sorry. How do we limit ourselves on the timeframe for looking for someone expediting that to the point of interviews, and then how long should we take to do that? Process in general. So first context of top talents is hired within a seven to 10 day period from the time they apply to when they're made an offer.
And so when you think about your steps overall, let's say you have a phone screen and you have an in-person interview, and then you do a background check or whatever, if you have three, four steps. [00:22:00] You have to do those three, four steps within a seven to 10 day period. And what a lot of people do is things like have a phone screen and they're like, okay, now I'm busy with appointments.
I'll have an interview with you in two weeks. And then you do the interview, and then another two weeks go by, oh shoot, I gotta talk to that candidate again. And now you're a month in, six weeks in and you still don't have a decision and neither do they. And they don't know what's coming up next. If it's disorganized.
So by establishing steps, by establishing what your own process is, it will help you move through it quicker. And then also going back to that checklist, if that's what you're measuring every candidate by, you're asking the same questions on every interview. You're asking all the same bullet points of this is what we're looking for, and it should be a simple yes or no.
If it's yes, move them forward and get 'em in the calendar the next. Day, if you have to make accommodations to come late, go early. [00:23:00] Do it because this is someone, you know, you're thinking about marrying this person. Mm-hmm. So do what it takes to seal the deal. If it's the right person, that is wonderful. And if you are hiring someone and you're busy with projects, you're just gonna have to suck it up buttercup and, and put the timeframe in there to do it.
Right. And as you said, whether it's before you start working on projects for the day or after you're working on projects, or if you have to. Squeeze it in during lunch hour, whatever you have to do. Commit to that time to do it, and then commit to the time to follow up with that. We have processes for our clients that we follow from the beginning to the end, so we should have a process for recruitment and hiring as well.
And I think that is, again, something that we fail to do. We think it's gonna be so fast and so easy, and everyone is just clamoring to work with us and they're gonna knock our doors down. And yes, we have all the time in the world and it's like, no, they've already moved on. If you've taken, you know, three, four weeks to even get back to them with any sort of answer, they've already moved on.
My mind goes to. Clients as far as setting up expectations [00:24:00] as well, and setting those expectations up from the beginning of like, okay, this is step one, and then step two is we're going to interview, then I'm going to get back with you within a certain timeframe, and if we just set those expectations up, follow through with those, then the new hires should work out perfectly as far as timing goes.
Now you hit on onboarding earlier, and I think that is a very important part to this too, because I did not have an onboarding process in the beginning when I was. Bringing in new team members, I was like, yeah, if they know how to do design, they're just going to figure it out. And, and then it did not work out for me.
I can't even tell you how many administrative assistants I've gone through throughout my career, my business, but designers I'm really good at. Administrative assistants is not my forte. I'm gonna hire you to help me with that. I think I, I think that onboarding process is just really, really critical for whatever role that you're hiring.
So I have two questions for you. First of all. What do you see as the number one hire that a young design firm really, really busy with projects? What is that first hire that you are seeing [00:25:00] that people are making? And then I want you to give more information on the importance of onboarding and how we can basically cater a process to that role once we decide what role we need.
Yeah. I have two answers to your first question. So who do we determine that we need to bring on first? The very first thing from a mindset standpoint is you have to be able to envision yourself where you need to be in the company. If you are gonna be the design principle, then great. You need. Some sort of administrative support that can take those things off of you.
So you can focus on the design work and the client interactions. But if you see yourself as the operational person and you are the procurement manager, the project manager, then you might need to bring in a lead designer. So you have to determine where do you see yourself in the future if it's your first one.
And then from there, it'll. Snowball and you'll start to be able to put it together, like puzzle pieces. The game is where can I alleviate more time? [00:26:00] So in the case of your first hire, you're trying to alleviate your time. In the case of your second hire, it might not be your time, it might be. A designer's time and they need a junior designer.
It might be an installer that takes something off of your plate by not having to deal with subcontractors constantly. It's a puzzle in a strategy, but time is the element that you're trying to figure out because that time then equals your profitability. I think that is really important. I like to sort of make a list of what I'm very good at and what I like to do versus what I'm looking for in someone else and want to find someone who can take that off of my plate if I don't enjoy doing CAD work.
Let's say for instance, find someone who's amazing at cad. Then has all the other deliverables that you're looking for. But that's kind of where I start that whole thing as well, is to say like, what do I not want to do anymore? Right? And I would even say too, do I have to hire the person or can I subcontract it?
So you know, [00:27:00] in the case of your drawings, your drafting, do you need them on site to do it or can you use a service that does that and then be able to maybe bring on someone administrative and use your money in different ways. You could also bring on a virtual assistant or an intern that is just looking to break into design schools.
So looking at what the role is. Then we'll help start to figure out your strategies. Is this a subcontractor or a vendor that I need to get in partnership with? Or that VA or intern. Hmm. Yeah, that is really good information as well. And I know every state can vary. I know California, where I live, is very strict on contract labor, 10 99 labor.
So little disclaimer, check with your state that you're in to end your account to make sure that you're doing things properly. How much does company culture play into this? Because if someone is interviewing, like I, for instance, if I bring on a new team member. I meet with them first, and then I also have them do a little interview with other people on my team.
I just kind [00:28:00] of choose a person that I feel a lead designer or whomever. How much does company culture play into the decision making process for the person choosing to work with you? I. Yeah, in the design world, it's huge. It's something that creatives thrive in is a good culture. You know, if you're in a negative environment, doesn't feel so good.
If you're pressured constantly, it doesn't feel so good. And so this culture, whatever it is, if it is shown to them throughout the whole recruiting experience, and it's not like a whiplash when they come on board, we want to give them the idea of what it would be like. To come on board. And I like doing that with what you suggested.
Having an interview with other individuals or even shadowing for a day. Maybe not going out in the field, but maybe coming into the showroom, the office and sitting with someone while they do their work. And just work through it and in a half day or a full day to get a sense of a day in the life. That's really good information.
You [00:29:00] know, once I did. A hire and I, I ended up hiring her. She helped us on an installation and I said, Hey, you know, we have these opportunities. Do you want to do this in the office or do you want to maybe come with us on an install? She did a great job. The only thing is she showed up wearing like a dress and heels, and I'm like, okay, no, no, no.
We don't wear those on installation. But back to the point of me giving her the right information, I should have said, here's what you can wear to this. I did that going forward with other, here's the dress code I. Pivot into processes, and again, this is my jam. I could talk about this all day, and I know it is yours as well, because I just know firsthand from myself and from students that I coach that if you don't have a process, the client is going to lose out.
You're going to lose money. The project is not going to go on time on the investment amount that they're wanting to achieve. So talk about. The importance of processes and how that can overall affect the success of your business? Yeah. Not having a process is number [00:30:00] one, the biggest mishap that interior designer can have, and for all those reasons, but boiling down to just stress.
You know, when you're sitting in a position and going, gosh, why is this taking so long? Why can this project never wrap up? It always is funny to me when I ask. Interior designers, you know, how do you do your job closeout? Like what's the wrap up at the end? And I can't even tell. I think it's, every single time I talk to someone, they're like, what do you mean?
It just forever goes on and on and on. I'm like, what? Like I get getting add-ons in new rooms, but isn't there, can't you like celebrate? Can't, you know, and I'm not talking like HGTV stuff. I'm like, when do you say it's done? Close that book and start a new one, you know? And so having a process will help you feel better about what you're accomplishing, and not that you're dragging things out and not getting to where you wanna be.
It gives you a roadmap to where that goal actually [00:31:00] needs to be for the client experience, for your big picture goals of your company. That having a process is absolutely critical, and it should be for every. Element of your business and it not to freak out like the new interior designers and stuff. I'm not talking about doing it tomorrow.
It's an evolution and it even changes over time when you hit certain milestones in your business. But I'm talking about every step of the client journey. Every time there's a problem on a job or that punch list you have to put together. How do you navigate those? What are the if then situations? If a contractor installs something before it's.
You know, do or premature, how are you gonna address it? What do you have to do with the client? What do you have to do with the contractor? How much is that gonna cost you? And if you can wrap all those questions into actionable steps, then you are so much more organized and you're leading the customer, you're leading your team instead of just reacting to everything.
Yes, yes, yes. Amen. [00:32:00] Sister. Preach it. I feel, I feel all of that. Who wants to work with a designer who doesn't have a definitive beginning and a definitive ending to a project? I couldn't imagine. If you're really busy, you're having one project pile up on another project, and then you're just saying, what?
That client's still there to call me to do whatever at their house. There's no ending to it. Like, no, please close it out. Figure out how to wrap that up, and then your mind is. Free to focus on other things too, right? Yeah. Just keep filling the funnel and that pile up is what is dangerous. Yeah. Because then you start to feel like, oh, I gotta hire more people because we just don't have the bandwidth.
But actually it's an inefficiency problem in one of your steps. And if you can dial it in and you can figure out. Where are your time gaps? Where are those inefficiencies? Where are you lacking communication? Yeah. And I found that when you, again, back to setting of expectations with the client. When you tell a client, I have a process in place, here are the steps in that process, or [00:33:00] even if it's not steps, here are the phases of my process.
Mm-hmm. That we're going to go through. If you don't wanna overwhelm them with steps, he can say, we have. Four distinct phases that we worked with. And right now we're gonna start obviously in phase one. I'll let you know when we're about to move to phase two. That just lowers the client's stress level to where they're like, okay, like she has it under control.
Like she knows when we're going to do this, this and the other. And I think to your point, the timing of it is very critical because if we just leave step two and step three open-ended and we're thinking that we're done, but the client doesn't know that we're done and we just leave it ongoing. We never know when to move to the next part of our process.
So how do we, if you're a new designer and you're like, oh my gosh, like yes, I want a process, but I've never done this type of project before. Are there any tips you have for people just basically figuring out the timeframe that it's going to take them and maybe putting some limitations on that? Yeah, no, that's.
That's a great question. So if there's any level of experience that you've had where you maybe shadowed another design [00:34:00] firm, or you've had a couple of projects under your belt, then start there because you'll have an idea. Even if it took you what you thought was longer than necessary, you have a baseline to go off of.
So break down the process in terms of your time. Time to source. Time to prepare a contract or an estimate time to put together the design concept, time to procure all the items. So if you can narrow down generally, and I would actually narrow it down to a single item or a single room, how long does it take to do this living room on average?
How long does it take to. Do all the furnishings in this room, you can start to add and subtract your time. Do you think it's a good idea for people to, basically, if they are new and they don't have. Expertise in a certain type of project or a certain way that they're working. Let's say they've only done furnishings of home, they've only done decor and furnishings, and now they're like, okay, I wanna move into a renovation [00:35:00] type project.
Mm-hmm. And I want to figure that out. One of the things that I recommend, whether it's right or wrong, I, I recommend it all the time, is to say, make up a mock project as well. If you don't have a project, create one. If you have time to do that and work your way through that to see how long it would take you to fulfill.
Mm-hmm. Each step in the process. Is that something that you find helpful for people? Absolutely. I mean, that even kind of goes into the onboarding of a new hire. They could do a mock project as they're learning, estimating, and putting together contracts, and maybe it's. Something that you've done in the past.
The exercise will help you understand your numbers a little bit more, and then you have the benchmark so that you can go back to it when you've done the project and you're analyzing afterwards. When you have that finality and the job is closed, then you can go back and look at, okay, did I get it right?
And that's just gonna be your learning money as you. Figure things out and [00:36:00] readjust your costs based on how much time it's taking. But I think a mindset thing that new interior designers have going into it is they are being paid to design, which is true that they're designers, that's what they're getting paid to do.
But sometimes your designers think that that means like just sourcing forever on end, and so it's gonna be. 30 days worth of designing and sourcing, and then that's what they should spend their time on. Find a way to shorten each of the stages regardless if it's sourcing or drawing or whatever, because when the time is.
Condensed, you can bill at a higher rate and be more profitable based on that because you're being efficient. Don't just take the time because you have it and you can bill for it. Get more projects from that person. Then you'll get more references, more reviews. By being efficient, by making the experience [00:37:00] phenomenal and not having the clients sit there and go, God, what is taking them so long?
Mm. Mm-hmm. Efficiency is critical. And I think too, my other little. Piece of advice would be to give yourself some grace. If it's a first type of project that you've never worked on before, give yourself grace and give your client grace too. Like don't overcharge them for time that you're learning on their dime.
Yeah, that's not their fault that you're learning on this project. They hired you because you are competent. You can get the job done, but also don't take advantage of that either. I think there's a little bit of a give and take there. Do you agree? Absolutely. Yeah. And it, it is, it's that learning money. So learn from it.
Make the adjustments for next time. Don't nickel and dime your customers because that is going to be a part of your reputation. Your reputation is gonna be more important than the per project profitability. We want you to be profitable, we want you to be efficient in all the things. That's what we're saying is if you're learning.
From this, at each stage, then you will be more profitable. You will have a [00:38:00] better process and be more efficient than just brushing outta the covers and figuring it out as you go. Yeah, and you'll grow every time. You'll get better, every time. You'll get more efficient, every time. You'll get more honed in on how long that's going to take and how much you're going to have to give, and how much the client's going to give, and what deliverables you have, and what deliverables the client needs, and you'll just get better at it.
That's right. Think like, oh my gosh. If there's one thing I would've done differently in the beginning of my business was to have processes in place and to have a timeline in place and to set those expectations. We were talking before we hit record, and you mentioned that, that there's basically four common mistakes that you see when people are developing their processes and following through with their processes.
So tell me about what those mistakes are and maybe how we can overcome those. Yeah, absolutely. One, first and foremost, we talked about it not having a process. You gotta have a process. That's the benchmark, that's the foundation that everything can be grown on, and that's every aspect of the process, the client journey, the [00:39:00] problems that go wrong if you have employees, the onboarding, the training.
What happens if you have a facility and you have to close it that day because you got a snowstorm? All of the processes have to be figured out at some point in your career. Prioritize the ones that are client facing first, and then you can layer on and tweak from year to year. Number two is the timing of the discovery phase, making sure you do know how much time it takes between each step and challenge yourself.
Ask questions when you go to High Point, or when you're networking with your other designer friends, ask them how long it takes, because to me, as a customer facing type of person, if I hear that it takes. 30 days to get an estimate out on a project that I was super excited, you know, to start doing. That's way too much time in my customer world.
So find ways to challenge yourself that if it is taking. 30 days and that's viable. There's a lot of things that you [00:40:00] have to put together. There's a lot of details, but find a way to shorten it. Find out how and what tools you can use to make that condense and do that then with every one of your processes.
So time to Source is a killer for a lot of interior design businesses for starting time to get the contract details together. So have some sort of template in. Place, and I was listening to your conversation with Christina Richardson in episode 55 about contracts and you know, she spells out how beautifully all the details and why that's important, but have that ready, have it ready to go so that you're just customizing certain things and then it's quick and easy to get that contract out so you're not delaying.
An actual sale, and then here with anything that's discontinued, you wanna order it before it gets discontinued or before the manufacturer says it's gonna be 16 weeks versus eight weeks. So being up on your ordering [00:41:00] timing and not let it just sit is going to be critical in that phase. I love those tips.
That's so, so, so good. I'm sure you could probably list 55 tips if you really sat down and thought about it. Stream of conscience. Yeah. Right. I'm telling you like I see so many things, but yeah, I, I love all of that. And do you ever see people when they do get their processes in place and their. Really good.
You've worked with them and they've worked them out, and you're like, yes, they feel good about it, you feel good about it, but they're just a little wishy-washy in enforcing those processes with a client. Right? So what do you ever see that, and how do you help combat that part of it? So when we build processes, I'm building 'em with the owner, usually the manager, the some the person that's gonna be responsible for the role.
Because you're right. You know, if they are being told what to do with it, they might be wishy-washy. Or if it's yourself and you're uncomfortable with doing it. So you have to own it as the owner if you're [00:42:00] developing the process. You need to stand behind that, not just because of your client and your deliverables, but if you have employees, you need to set the example for everyone else and not make your word look bad.
So we definitely wanna stand and own what we are putting in place, and if you can enforce it, don't put it on the contract. Put someone else in the role that does enforce that contract. As a lead designer, when we're talking about hiring, we gotta make sure that they're good at enforcing contracts. That's gonna be a must have in the list because they're gonna have to negotiate those things.
So we wanna put people in the right seats to be able to enforce the role that is. Needed for the company. And I think that goes back to the business owner as well. As you said, if you're not good at enforcing it, or if you're not good at asking that client to pay their bill on time, or that your invoice is late by Dolly, hire an employee who's gonna come in and be that person to, you know, say, yes, you're late.
We have to stop your project until you get this done. [00:43:00] And then you basically have this sort of other person making sure the process keeps going. Mm-hmm. And you're not having to do that. I hired really great designers, but a lot of them weren't. Straightforward when it come to making sure that a client didn't take too long on choosing something and that would allow them, you know, multiple revisions.
And then I would say things like, wait, why are we going back to do this again? When we had a process in place that they have to choose and approve within a certain amount of time. Well, you know, they wanted to look at something else and they want, and okay, yes, that's going to delay their project. That's going to delay the Smiths project.
That's going to delay the Jones' project because everybody is in this sort of domino effect when one thing is off schedule, right? Mm-hmm. It's going to affect other things because there's only so much time in the day that you can work. Absolutely. I just say, stick with your guns. If you've come up with processes through Jessica, through me, through yourself, through anywhere, stick to your done.
Follow those steps and do not waiver on those. That is so important. Follow your own rules and practice what you preach. Now, you touched on something [00:44:00] earlier, and I wanna come back to that, which is referrals and the importance of that. I do think that. When you have these processes set up for your company and you have the right team members, we've talked about recruiting them and, and bringing them on board and all the things, you want those referrals to happen, and I know that that is something that you actually worked with designers to help them facilitate not only just their processes, but also the importance of getting referrals from their existing clients.
So speak to the fact of referrals and what your feelings are on that and how we can really nurture. Those relationships so that our previous clients are our biggest billboard for our new clients. Yeah, it all boils down to relationships and follow up. So, you know, in a, a residential market, let's say, first off, you have to identify what you ideal customer is.
And once you have them, then you want to cultivate that relationship, which then will return referrals to you. So for example, you have Mrs. [00:45:00] Smith. She is fabulous. She has had so many projects with you. She loves what you're doing. And so take her as an example and build, flourish, a relationship that is thoughtful and detailed.
Maybe learn her birthday and reach out to her on her birthday. You know, maybe randomly send her flowers because you were thinking of her when. You were in the design phase with her. She mentioned something about her favorite movie or her dog that she loves and you do something with that, or their favorite, you know, sports team.
So you wanna pick up the details as you're working with that person. They give you all of those. Clues. And then after the job close out, that's when you have to create a process of following up and following through on these details with your potential customer or your repeat customers. And what happens is, and it's a more organic thing, then, like an old school, let me just.
You know, [00:46:00] ask for all of your friends and family contact information. Naturally as you're talking, you get to know them and they're gonna say, oh, so and so is redoing their home. Oh, that's amazing. I would love to get in touch with them and let them bring it up. But if you're not following up with them, they're just.
Not miraculously gonna be like, here you go. Here's a bunch of business. It was the relationship that you built at some period of time that is getting that result. So you proactively should create a process surrounding that, that continues that follow through over a long period of time. When do you feel the relationship building process starts with a designer and the client?
Very first phone call. Yeah, discovering who that customer is, learning their environment, and I think that even plays into what we were talking about, like the timing aspect of it. If we're not doing a good discovery phase and asking the right questions and learning their motivations and what they like and dislike, [00:47:00] that's how you can get into things like doing 50 revisions.
You know, if your contract isn't saying that you're only gonna do two, and so that's how they're gonna. Have scope creep with you if you are not dialed in on who they are, what they need, and you just start that on the first call. That's part of even winning the deal to get into their home in the first place.
So true. I think a great way to end a project is to show that client you appreciate them. We do a nice professional photo book of the photos that we took of the home and we give that to the client and kind of documenting the journey. But I also ask for referrals at the end. I have a process. I ask for referrals and I ask for recommendations as far as on Google or anything like that, right?
To make sure that they know like, okay, the project is, we're wrapping up here. We just finished it. You know, this is that nail in that coffin. Do you like to recommend that people ask. For referrals after the project is over as well. Yeah, we'll ask for referrals if I feel like the relationship was built.
Hmm. So, you [00:48:00] know, if it's not an organic sense where, you know, I feel like we have relationship, they've really jelled with us. They have a great experience from what we presented, then it will be a conversation of. Who do you know who could I help? Was there anyone within your network that would love this experience too?
But if there's any sense of this didn't go well, then I'm gonna be omitting that from the conversation. Yeah. If you're running out of the house and slamming the door behind you and jumping in your car and speeding off. Probably not gonna ask for a referral from that client, right? But what you will do is go back to review your process to see maybe what you did wrong in the process, right?
Maybe you'd even vet the right person. Maybe it wasn't the right client for you, and you guys just never got along and so you don't wanna ask for more of them. We want the clients that we really love to come, you know, more of those. Yeah, we don't want more of you. We want more of the right client. Right?
Right. So now, now we've figured out who we [00:49:00] don't want to work with, which is a big deal too. Right Now we know who our ideal client is, and we know who our non-ideal client is at that point. Right? So, so funny. Um, reviewing your processes is important enough to make sure that they are correct. Do you like to recommend that it's done after every project and to sit down and say, what did we do right?
What misstep did we have? Yeah, absolutely. I think a lot of interior designers like to incorporate, especially if they have a team after getting a contract, a new project meeting. I love to do that at the end of the job too. Like let's, as a team, project recap, I. And it could be as simple as on your Monday meetings every week, all right, this one closed.
What was good about it? What was bad about it? What do we wanna do in the future? And then revisit that in your goal planning, if you can start to take those pieces and what you learned and put it on a list. Like I have an ideas folder in my email, so I just write myself an email so that when I do goal setting at the end of the year, I look [00:50:00] at my.
Email folder, and I'm like, oh yeah, these were great ideas. These are the ones that I wanna do. Some people I've seen keep a spreadsheet of the, you know, let's fix this in the future. So whatever you do, just make sure it's intentional and you capture that information for a purpose. Yeah, those are great tips.
I just speak into my notes section of my phone and do it that way because I just have too many things that pop into my head. I'm like, we are not doing that again, or that worked. Or even too, like if something worked really, really well. I think that's worth noting too, to say, oh my gosh, you know, step number seven was right on the money.
We nailed that one, so we're gonna leave that and not change anything. I think it's important to pat yourself on the back as much as you criticize yourself in the process too. Right. Right. Don't be Debbie Downer on yourself, like all the time. You gotta find the joy in what you're doing somehow. I know, I know.
And I think that we start our design businesses because we love design, we love the concept of that. And then before you know it, it starts to get into an actual business. And I think that if we just look [00:51:00] at it from the get go to say, okay, this is a business. I do have dreams of opening up another office or bringing on five team members, or having this.
Taken off of my plate and put onto theirs. I think if you go into it with that mindset, it will help you to be less timid about making those decisions when it's time to make them. Don't you agree? Yeah. What do you think would be one step today that a designer can take? To really start building their dream team.
If they're listening to this right now and they're saying yes, okay. I feel that urge. I really have too much going on. Like I know that I want to grow my company. I know that I want to bring on more talent. Is there one thing today that they could do right now to sort of. Spur that process and get it into motion other than just saying, I'm gonna hire someone.
What can they do to mentally prepare themself? Yeah. If it's a brand new designer and you're starting your firm for the first time, start with the culture aspect of it. For me personally, I started with my core values. And where I needed that to be structured for the [00:52:00] whole foundation of what we're doing with our core values.
We can do employee reviews on those. We can goal set for the next year and say, how are we contributing towards these core values with our customers, with each other? And so that helps us. Establish a culture. And then from there you can start to put together your roles and the organization chart. But one advice is come up with goal setting, big picture and stuff like that.
But also at some point come back to reality because you can't build a business from the future. You have to build the business from where you're at right now. And if where you're at right now is that you get one job a year. And you just are trying to reach for three jobs a year, then your goals need to be focused on that and processes built towards that.
Don't build processes that are for a $5 million business. That requires all these people and all these things. 'cause you're gonna get really disappointed [00:53:00] when those are not lining up right away. Mm. That is good advice right there, because I think a lot of times we. See a firm on social media or in a magazine, and we're like, yes, I want to be like X, Y, Z firm.
Like, oh, you don't have to be like that. And if you have realistic goals in mind and say, yeah, I want to be a five person firm and I want to have a procurement manager and an administrative assistant and two designers, or whatever that is. Realistic for a lot of people, and I think that is such good advice, is to basically dream big, but don't over dream yourself to where you're, you know, trying to live someone else's dream.
Yeah, absolutely. I remember when I started behind the design, I sat down and I came up with a 20 year plan, and I still have that 20 year plan. I was just hit. Six years in business, and I was looking back at the last five years and we hit every goal except one on the list, which was super exciting to reflect back to.
And then also have my next 20 year plan to go, all right, am I in the place where I [00:54:00] needed to be? Do I need to reset? Are my goals even what I wanted them to be six years ago? So have the big picture that you can go reference, but be in the moment. Make sure that you're building every day, every week towards your current goals.
Yeah. Dreaming is great, and then goals are more realistic with a timeframe attached to it, essentially. And that will, yeah. Ensure that you are getting somewhere and that you're at least working towards that. Oh my gosh. I could talk about this all day long because I think it, and we didn't even get into like management of team members and all of those fun things, but about your company.
I want you to tell people what you can offer to them and what services you have because you're obviously a wealth of knowledge. You've been there, done that when it comes to recruitment and processes and hiring and all the things, and we didn't even talk about. Firing that F word. Why we didn't even go there.
Tell me about behind the design and what you actually can offer to designers and what services you have to take that load off of our plate. Absolutely. We are a [00:55:00] people operations company, so we fix people and process problems. We do that in three different ways. Recruiting top talent. We can either teach you how to do it or do it for you.
For those that just need to delegate it. We do employee training on things like sales, procurement, project management, business development, and if you have a window covering division product knowledge on window coverings. Then our process consulting helps set up software systems for you so you can automate your systems.
We help you maximize your current systems. Like if you think you're using 10% of it, we'll help you use a hundred percent of it. We'll set up email templates. And scripts and stuff like that, which will then help support your process, which will streamline and make sure that if you have a current process, we usually work with something that they have and we streamline it from there.
And then we can actually document those procedures. So you have a manual, you can have that for training, onboarding of a [00:56:00] new person. We can do HR tools. Wow. I love it. Where were you when I. Started 15 years ago,
hit on something so important for people to remember is that. We're not coming down on you 100%. There are things that people could be doing in their businesses that is great, and you just come in and tweak those things to make them a little bit better. So I don't want people to listen to this and think, I'm not gonna do anything because it all sounds so overwhelming.
No, don't think that way because a lot of times there are things that people in their businesses are doing correctly. They just need to be refined. Dere, absolutely. Like our whole consulting process, it starts with discovery and we look at what you're doing now, how it's maximized. If it's working great, we don't touch it.
If it's not working, that's what we're gonna prioritize. Because I've been in a family business and I've ran that business. You just don't have time to implement sometimes. I talked to so many business owners that are visionaries and they've got all the goals, and they're that lead [00:57:00] designer and they're killing it with their customers, but they don't have time to put together a manual.
They don't have time to set up their software. They don't have time to train their people, but they know what needs to be done, and so we're the integrators. We come in and do it for you so you can spend your time on your vision and growing your company. Because the two things that get in the way are time enough to do it or the fact that you just don't want to do it.
And you know what? Both of those are okay, and that is why you're here to help take that off of the plate of people, for people who wanna know more about you, and how to find out all of these great services in detail and set up a discovery call. Tell everyone how to find you on your website, social media, all that fun stuff.
Yes. We have a brand new website that I'm super stoked about. Shout out to Nicole Heimer. She was fabulous. I just thought it's gorgeous. Oh my gosh, I love it. And so that's go behind the design.com. Our Facebook is behind the design. Our Instagrams go behind the design and behind the [00:58:00] design on LinkedIn.
Wow. Well, I think we could probably go on for another three hours and really get into this, but unfortunately we've run out of time. I just want to thank you for sharing all these tips because there were so many nuggets in here. So thanks for sharing it. So open and honest, and candidly with everyone today, I know it's gonna resonate with the listeners and thanks for all you do in the industry.
Thank you, John, and I think we did it in one take. Look at this. We did it. We did it. You know, some might say we're professionals. Jessica, thanks Jessica. Thanks John. Thanks for tuning in to the Designer Within podcast. I hope you found today's episode inspiring and full of actionable ideas to help you design a better home, a thriving career, or simply a more intentional life.
For more tips, resources, and free downloads to support the design of your home or the design of your career, head on over to john mcclain.co. That's [00:59:00] john mcclain.co. And remember, to make big changes on the outside, you need to start within. Until next time, I'm John McLean. Stay creative and stay inspired.