97: The Science of How Interior Design Affects Behavior, Wellbeing, and Daily Life with Eryn Oruncak

The Science of How Interior Design Affects Behavior, Wellbeing, and Daily Life

Interior designers know when a room feels right. But what is actually happening beneath the surface?

In this episode of The McClain Method Podcast, John McClain sits down with Eryn Oruncak, founder of Elan Design, to talk about neuroaesthetics and the science behind how thoughtfully designed spaces affect the way people think, feel, and function.
Eryn explains why great design goes deeper than visual style. A room can support clarity, comfort, productivity, and a sense of belonging. It can also reduce friction in daily life by helping clients move through their routines with more ease.
This conversation explores how designers can pay closer attention to the way clients respond to materials, color, light, layout, and the overall feeling of a room. Eryn also shares how this deeper understanding has helped her communicate her value more clearly, guide clients with confidence, and create spaces that feel complete.

In This Episode

•  What neuroaesthetics means in plain language 
•  How interior design affects behavior, wellbeing, and daily routines 
•  Why client preferences go deeper than visual style 
•  How clutter and unresolved spaces can add to cognitive load 
•  The importance of asking better questions during the design process 
•  Why designers should observe physical and emotional responses to materials 
•  How coherence, fascination, and hominess work together in a finished room 
•  Why completing a space matters for the client experience 
•  How designers can explain the deeper value behind their decisions 

A Practical Question for Designers

One of the simplest takeaways from the conversation is to review a project and ask:
How is this room serving the client?
That question can open a deeper conversation about function, comfort, clarity, investment, and the choices that still need to be made.

About Eryn Oruncak

Eryn Oruncak is the founder of Elan Design. She is an interior designer and fine artist whose work focuses on creating deeply customized spaces that support the people living and working inside them. She also consults with designers, schools, stores, builders, developers, and organizations interested in understanding how environments affect behavior and wellbeing.

Resources
Learn more about Eryn Oruncak and Elan Design: 

https://www.elan.design/

 Explore the neuroaesthetics resources and consultation information on the Elan Design website 
 Use code John for $100 off a one-hour neuroaesthetics consultation 

FREE VIDEO TRAINING DIRECT FROM JOHN:

Design feels natural.

The business side doesn’t.

Join this free 39-minute training for interior designers and learn the 3 secrets to building a profitable, stress-free design business without burnout or chaos.

👉 Watch the free training: https://learn.mcclainmethod.com/dsa_webinar_registration

Transcript

The McClain Method Podcast

Episode 97: The Science of How Interior Design Affects Behavior, Wellbeing, and Daily Life

Host: John McClain
Guest: Eryn Oruncak, founder of Elan Design
Transcript status: Lightly cleaned for spelling, punctuation, speaker clarity, and readability. Sections that could not be resolved confidently from the supplied transcript are marked [unclear] rather than guessed. The source transcript did not include timestamps.

John McClain: Hey, y’all. You’re listening to The McClain Method Podcast, episode number 97.

Podcast Intro: Welcome to The McClain Method, the podcast for interior designers who are ready to stop hiding and start shining. I’m your host, John McClain, designer, business mentor, author, and your branding bestie. This is not about paint colors or pendant lighting. It’s about building a business that’s both visible and profitable, inside and out.

From marketing and messaging to mindset, systems, and visibility, we cover the front stage and the back stage of your design business because your brilliance deserves the spotlight, and your business deserves to run like a dream behind the scenes. So if you’re ready to be seen, get recognized, and get booked, it’s time to let it shine.

Welcome to The McClain Method.

John McClain: Hey, everybody. Welcome back to The McClain Method Podcast. So happy to have you here. Whatever you’re doing today, between site visits, doing the laundry, I don’t care. We’re just happy you’re here. And this is the podcast, as you know, where we talk about the real work of running an interior design business.

And today’s conversation is just that. It is one that I have been looking forward to for a while. We are talking about neuroaesthetics.

Now, before you glaze over on me, hang in there. If you’ve heard this word and maybe you’re not sure exactly how it works or how to apply it to your business or what it even means, or maybe you’ve never even heard that word, neuroaesthetics, I want you to hang around because this conversation is going to change a lot for you.

I’m looking forward to learning a lot about it because, frankly, I only know the definition. I don’t know really all the ways that we can bring this into our business, but my guest today does. And we’re going to talk about what spaces are actually doing to people and how beauty affects behavior.

You know, we think about this a lot, but we’ve never delved this deep into that, and why the future of interior design may be more scientific than most of us were even trained or taught to think about. So if you’ve ever, ever felt that great design changes how people show up in their lives but struggle to explain the why behind it, then this episode is going to give you language and perspective to do that.

And my guest today is someone who knows all about that. We have Eryn Oruncak, and she is the founder of Elan Design. She is both a fine artist and an interior designer known for creating evocative spaces that are deeply customized to the people who live and work in them. She is also one of the first designers in the industry to become SIDC certified, and we’ll talk about that, in neuroaesthetics.

Her work focuses on how thoughtfully designed environments can enhance performance, support our health, and shape emotional experience. Doesn’t that just give you all the warm and fuzzies when you hear those words? She consults not only with residential clients, but also with schools, stores, designers, and organizations as well that want to understand how space impacts behavior and wellbeing.

All right, Eryn. Welcome to The McClain Method Podcast.

Eryn Oruncak: John, can you walk around with me and just give me that introduction every day? I mean, what a thrill. Thank you so much for having me on your show.

John McClain: I’m so happy you’re here, truly. Yeah, I wish we all had sort of just someone walking around to explain to everybody what we do. But I truly am excited and enthusiastic about the topic because I think when we really look into what neuroaesthetics is and how it affects our daily lives and our designs, it’s such a powerful thing.

But for designers hearing this term for the first time, what is neuroaesthetics, kind of in plain language?

Eryn Oruncak: One sentence. Neuroaesthetics is the way our environment and art [unclear] our brain and nervous system.

John McClain: Okay.

Eryn Oruncak: It’s the science of understanding what happens to our bodies [when] we are in an environment.

John McClain: There really is a lot happening. So now that we have that part down, we know what the definition is, and thank you for speaking clearly on that. That’s truly helpful.

How did you get involved in this line of work, in this specific category of design? And then tell me more about your design firm that you have now and all the services that you offer.

Eryn Oruncak: There was one question that you and I spoke about. What is that feeling when we walk into a space and we know that that resonates with us and we love it there? Literally, our molecules and [unclear] there’s something that happens. Designers are sensitive to that. We walk into areas...

Clients are sensitive to that, too. They just don’t recognize it. They know something just happened, but what was that? Designers walk into a space and feel something. So that happened to me, and it was: What just happened? Why did that just happen? What did I just feel? Right? Let’s take inventory of that moment.

And that is what catapulted me into studying what just happened right there. I do this for a living. I need to make people feel that way. I need to impact their being by my spaces. How did that just work for me? How do I make this happen for somebody else? That’s a level of service for interior design.

John McClain: I feel like sometimes we take it for granted what we do, just in general as designers, right? And it sounds like to me, you maybe had misunderstood or maybe mislabeled or not really categorized what you were doing and how powerful it was either, until you actually stopped to think about, like, wow, look. Look what I’m doing.

Look at the changes that I’m making in a person’s life just by doing what I do, which is, you know, designing a space beautifully. But it goes past the point of beauty, as you’re saying, and it goes into the meaning behind that. And we all feel it. As you said, we were talking, we all feel it, no matter what room you walk into.

Like, I feel like for me, I house bounce a lot, so I’ve bought a lot of houses over the years. Not because I’m wealthy or anything, just because I get tired and want a new house and whatever. So we’ll buy a house, design it, sell it, and then I have this, I don’t know, this sense of walking into a home completely empty. And I know most of us designers do as well. I just get a feeling from that home of what it could be or if it’s going to be the home for us.

And if it does, you know, wrap its arm around you, as I say, to make you feel comfortable. And I think that the level that you’re taking this now is so intriguing because very few of us have stopped to really think about the power behind that skill set that we have. But what’s happening in our brain when somebody walks into that space and they feel so deeply connected to that?

What is happening? I mean, I know what I feel, but what is happening here in between my ears?

Eryn Oruncak: There, there, it’s a hedonistic response, John. It’s a hedonistic response. It comes out of the reward and pleasure center, and we literally have receptors, opioid receptors in our brain. That is a feel-good. We feel, literally, we feel good.

And there’s a center in our brain that, all of that reward center activates, and that sends off hormones and neurotransmitters, and it gives you the feeling all over your body. It makes you relax. It lowers your blood pressure. It affects all of the systems in your being with that response to that place.

John McClain: If someone’s hearing this and they’re like, “Well, yeah, I know a space makes me feel good.” Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. But now when you explain it that way, it’s like, oh, there actually is scientific information to back that up. So someone may have this misconception that, oh, it’s just lovely style, but that style, you’re saying, is much deeper than just the style itself, right?

It goes much deeper than that.

Eryn Oruncak: Well, John, that’s the study about neuroaesthetics. First of all, I do want to clarify: I apply the principles of neuroaesthetics to interior design. So I apply that study of the being, how that being responds, me, the client, the kids, the store owner, the customers. How does that being respond to interior design principles? So neuroaesthetics is a science of being responding [unclear].

John McClain: There’s beauty category, and then there’s the aesthetic decision-making. Why do you think maybe we’re getting confused about that?

Eryn Oruncak: There’s a lot of noise. There are a lot of options. There are a lot of other factors that come into play when you actually have to specify a thing for a room.

When we can take that noise out and focus on our client, focus on their needs, focus on their person, what they like, what they want, what they respond to, what they have to do in that space, how they need to feel in that space, when we can really focus on that, that is when the noise kind of quiets down, and we can identify those specific things. It’ll come to us because we all know a ton of vendors. That is what this needs: that light fixture, that rug, that chair. I understand that now.

We have to be aware of money constraints, John. I had a place where I needed to think about neuroaesthetics. I needed to stop defending myself. I needed to not have the doubting husband across the table saying, “Why are you [unclear] me for this check right now? Who do you think you are asking me for $30,000?”

Hmm, let me think about that for a second. This is what I’m doing for you. This is what we’re putting together here. That $30,000 pays for all of these things, and I picked out all of these things based on your person. I crafted this for you, not me. This is not my room. This is what we are doing, my firm is doing, for you.

And when we can wrap our heads around what is happening for the designer and for the client, it helps our process as well. It helps us to understand. It helps us to quiet the noise and just do our job.

John McClain: That makes sense. And when you were speaking about all that, it made me think about the question of when do we start considering this? At what part of the process? Is it on a discovery call when you first meet the client? Is that when you start to bring in what you actually, your superpower? Or is it later on in the process, or is it continuously throughout the entire process?

Eryn Oruncak: The whole time.

John McClain: The whole shebang. Okay.

Eryn Oruncak: Front to back.

John McClain: Hmm.

Eryn Oruncak: And it’s that whole, yes, discovery call, but, you know, people go to my website and they know that we specialize in neuroaesthetics. We are working on a gigantic project right now, and the client hired us with the magic sentence: “We hired you. There are a lot of other interior designers in your area, but we hired you because of your expertise in neuroaesthetics.”

John McClain: Mm-hmm.

Eryn Oruncak: Magic words, because they knew: “I want that. I want her to help me do and think and feel in this 7,500-square-foot house.”

John McClain: I love that you found a niche, or niche, whatever the pronunciation is of that. I love that you found something so specific. And I always preach the fact that when you do find a lane that not only feels good and that you enjoy, but also brings those clients to you and that you actually can make money from that, you will grow faster than if you were just the, quote, “designer for everybody.”

You have found a niche that is supporting you, as it sounds to me, emotionally and also financially with your business as well. But did you start as an interior designer on this lane, on this pathway? Or did you bring this in later on in your business?

Eryn Oruncak: I have always done this. Now I have the vocabulary. I have studied more with the scientists, the neurologists. Like I said, when I jumped into understanding what just happened right there, that was for the health of my business. That was for the bank account. That’s what that was for, John.

I knew I was really good at what I do. I’m a great designer. My rooms are phenomenal for that person. What am I doing? And I need to be paid for that. My time needs to be honored for that. My staff needs to be taken care of and respected. What are we doing right now?

And we all do it. All designers [unclear] to our clients. We have to give them something they like. If they don’t like stripes, we don’t use stripes. If they like diamonds, throw in the diamonds. We cater to them because we want them to be happy. At the end of the day, after all the money and all the time, we want everybody to say, “I love it. Oh my God, here’s that feeling.” We got it.

John McClain: But it sounds to me, too, that you’re not only giving the client a feeling, but you’re giving yourself a feeling. You’re giving your team a feeling. Everybody is a winner in this situation.

Eryn Oruncak: Yeah.

John McClain: To designers that I coach, or in my programs, or just speak to in general, I say, “Where’s the joy in your business?”

That’s what I ask them. Where’s the joy? You have the passion, yes. I know that you love to do this. What are you sacrificing right now just to work? Are you sacrificing your joy? Are you sacrificing your peace? Are you sacrificing the calm that you have in your own life just to do something for a client that was probably maybe not a right fit?

But what I love is this holistic view that you’re speaking about. It just feels like everybody is getting what they need to get from working in this situation, and it’s just so lovely for me to think that you can actually enjoy what you do and make a profit from it and benefit someone else on a much deeper level the way that you’re doing it now.

Eryn Oruncak: Oh, John, thanks. That’s so cool. That’s [unclear].

John McClain: I always say you can’t read the label from inside the jar. Sometimes it takes somebody else to say, like, “Oh, look, here’s everything that you’re doing.” Tell me some real-world examples that maybe you’ve seen with your own clients of how you are helping them develop this environment for their home and how that is shaping behavior.

Tell me about that and maybe what you’ve seen happen in your own business.

Eryn Oruncak: Our clients get raises and promotions.

John McClain: Mm-hmm.

Eryn Oruncak: Lose weight.

We just had a gathering of teenagers clean up after themselves without anybody saying anything when they left. It cues you. Your environment cues you. It supports you. It is a puzzle piece, just a cog in the wheel about what you have to do all day.

I had a client one time, her posture changed. She [unclear] into the reveal, and she stood up straight, and she looked around. And I said to her, “Christy, you’re going to get a raise in a year.” We called her back. I said, “Did you get the raise?”

She said, “I did, and I got the promotion.” And it was all, “I just showed up differently.”

And we have seen, guys, you know, we have a husband and wife, and we walk around, and all of a sudden, on the reveal, this guy has this strut that he’s walking around his house like a peacock. He is the king. We created that. He is now feeling his power. That’s what we create.

We showed up to a photo shoot two, two and a half months after the installation, and opened the door, and she visibly lost weight. Visibly lost weight. And I said, “Oh my gosh, you look amazing.” The man of the house came. We saw him. He was relaxed.

“How you doing?” He was a nervous wreck when we were working on that project. He was stressed, and it was a different person. We were like, “How you doing?” “We’re great.” It is that whole idea of life that we just, we set the stage. It’s fun.

John McClain: It’s palpable in your voice how much you enjoy what you do. I mean, I would think that, you know, we talked about when this conversation starts. I think I have a good questionnaire. I can only imagine the questions that you ask the client are so much more in-depth.

But how much investigation do you do when you start working with a client on this level? How deep do you go on the things that you’re trying to, you know, mine out of them to figure out what you need to do to help them?

Eryn Oruncak: Lots of talking. Lots of talking, lots of stories. We want a, I guess it’s a nice thing that people want to tell me things. Sometimes it’s fun. Sometimes it’s like, “Okay. Okay, thanks.”

But I ask for a story, to not necessarily break the ice, but to kick things off. I say, “Show me your lucky dress. Show me your lucky dress, your favorite tie, your favorite shirt, the sweater, whatever. Show me your clothing,” because what you feel on your person, on your vessel, how you dress your vessel, is typically what you are comfortable with.

You like that. You like those colors. You like those patterns. You like that material. Let’s jump off from there, and then we have a story. “Oh, why is this your lucky dress?” “Oh, we were out to dinner, and we walked down the street, and he did this, and the flowers and the meal.” And they’ll tell me.

And we’ll start to kind of extrapolate what they respond to. What are their likes? What do they want? How does that affect them? What’s their goal? What’s important to them? Do they remember [unclear]?

John McClain: And is it just you taking what they’re telling you and then something triggers in your brain to think how you can bring that into their home? Is that what you’re listening for? Or are there certain things that you’re gauging the conversation on to help decide what pathway to take them down?

How does that work in your brain?

Eryn Oruncak: It’s a jump-off point. It’s a jump-off point. Something might trigger, like, maybe you can help tell me if you have heard of this before, but rooms talk to me. I think you just said that. The room talks to you. You can [unclear].

John McClain: Absolutely.

Eryn Oruncak: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we have this superpower.

Designers, we speak room, and the architecture comes around, and the energy field comes around, and we look at the light, and we catch all of these cues. What’s the view? How much space do we have? Is there a large window? Are they balanced? Is there something in the middle? Do I have to walk around? What do I hear? There’s a smell. What’s happening?

There’s all... Like, when I tell you, it’s a lot. It’s a lot. You just sit there and we... You know, give me more. Tell me everything. You like mohair. I’m allergic to wool. I mean, some of our clients, they’re very allergic to things that we have to gauge.

Okay, well, we have to stay away from that. They have dogs. Okay. All of these things that come into play. She’s petite and he’s very tall, or maybe they’re both petite, and we need to gauge the furniture to accommodate their stature.

Maybe he likes to relax. He’s a much more laid-back kind of guy. We have all of these scenarios and variables that we have to factor in. Who gets up early in the morning? Do they walk around with slippers? Do they like bare feet? All the things.

John McClain: All the things.

And I find that some clients understand this right away. I’ve had clients have visceral reactions to fabrics and to, you know, wall coverings and flooring and whatever. I think that some clients really do understand this on a deeper level.

But for those that don’t, for someone who’s like, “Well, no, I don’t understand that,” or, “I don’t think that’s how that works,” how do you explain this value to clients who may only think in visuals, or they only think in the money, the dollar amount that they’re spending?

How do you bring in the neuroaesthetics to that?

Eryn Oruncak: We bring them, you say the visceral reaction to fabrics, and that’s neuroaesthetics, John. You’re drawn to that. When you [unclear].

John McClain: Now I understand it, by the way, Eryn. Now I know what t